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 Post subject: Re: Hippeastrum
PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 10:39 pm 
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PA-Plantguy wrote:
.... You can get seed for some of the more common species from Mauro Peixoto in Brasil so that is also an easy place to start. I have gotten seed from him and they germinate perfectly so no problems there. None of the species shown above by the way as these are rarer and more expensive as you will likely find out!


Hello Dan and all:

Who can resist the temptation of the dreamed "Blue Amaryllis"? Worsleya procera (syn W. rayneri and locally known as "Rabo de Galo") is a botanical curiosity as it does not seem to relate directly to any other known genera. Botantists believe that it is a relic plant of the diminishing cool Atlantic Forest which used to cover large areas on coastal mountains from eastern to southern Brasil. Following deforestation for agricultural activities and urban growth, large parts of the Atlantic Forest have disappeared. It is believed that species relating to Worsleya procera have come under extinction long before records. Valued for its unique habit and eye-catching flowers, Worsleya is protected under regulations in Brasil. Collection of wild bulbs is strictly prohibited. However, the Brasilian Government has not done enough to protect wild plants. Worsleya is endemic to only 2 localities yet none of the places has been designated for natural reserve for conservation purpose. In fact, there is a trend of urban encroachment to the hillslopes where the cattle raised by people have eaten quite a number of bulbs which grow on the lower slopes. Then, wild bulbs are collected in wholesale quantities by farmers. A few years ago, a farmer was arrested and prosecuted by the Brasilian Nature Conservation Department for collecting 6 mature bulbs (see photo below). Yet, this farmer was just one of the uncountable number of collectors who gather and sell bulbs as a lucrative business. Mature bulbs were shipped to someone in Mexico where they were smuggled to the US where they are sold for $200 each. Then, a bush fire broke out about 5 years, destroying about half the population of one of the localities. Fortunately, Worsleya sets seed and mulitply vegetatively. It is hoped that through cultivation, there will be less demand for wild bulbs.

It is said that Worsleya varies slightly in shades from mauve pink to dark rose, some with dots while others are without dots on the petals.

I did not know that Mauro offers Worsleya seed. I raise my bulbs from a grower in New Zealand. Some of the seedlings turn out to be without any chlorophyll and die soon after germination. I have also got one bulb which is divided from a large clump originally collected by a Portuguese in Brasil in 1934!

Luar


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Rabo de Galo.jpg
Rabo de Galo.jpg [ 144.8 KiB | Viewed 3713 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Hippeastrum
PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 12:10 pm 
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Location: Lebanon, IN USA
Luar wrote:
Dear Rebecca:

I am happy that you like the pictures. Hippeastrum is definitely an amazing genus. I am thrilled that your papilio grows like weed for you. Without knowing the climate zone you are in, it is difficult to give advice on what species might do well for you. Fortunately, most Hippeastrum species do not have specific cultivation requirements and would grow well given sufficient sunlight, warmth and that you do not overwater them especially during winter time. The only few species which should receive special treatments are the aquatic / semi-aquatic species (H. angustifolium, H. breviflorum and H. harrisonii) and the epiphytic species (H. aulicum and H. calyptratum) which should be cultivated in high-organic media. H. calyptratum should be kept in a semi-shaded area with high humidity. On the other hand, species from northern Argentina (e.g. H. parodii and H. argentinum) should be kept on the dry side most of the year. These species may go through a dormant period of up to 4 months! Although most Hippeastrum species are native to the Andes of Bolivia, Peru and Argentina, bulbs grow equally well in this sub-tropical climate. In colder climates, however, Hippeastrum bulbs are prone to fungal infection which may result in bulb rot. Therefore, if you are living in an area colder than USDA zone 8, I suggest you provide heating for your bulbs and withhold watering during winter time. . . . .


H. breviflorum is small in size compared to most other species and hence the name. It is an aquatic species which grows along rivers and streams in NE Argentina, southern Brazil and southern Paraguay. It is a self-compatible species which makes seed. H. breviflorum is closely allied to H. harrisonii which is endemic to swampy areas in northern Uruguay.. . . .

Hemerocallis or Hymenocallis? I have got several Hymenocallis species, they make great indoor plants. I have got a large Hymenocallis tubiflora whose shiny waxy leaves always makes a great conversation piece.

Luar


Luar,

I live in Central Indiana (USDA Zone 5) so must grow all of my Hippeastrums and related bulbs in pots. I carry them outside to a shady area in last spring and back indoors in the fall. I have a "light garden" in my basement where I grow all of my "houseplants" and bulbs during the winter months. The Hippies mostly rest this time of the year, with exception to papilio, who seems grow in winter and rest in summer. There are currently 2 mature bulbs and one (very small) "pup" growing happily in a 12 inch pot. The mature bulbs are a good 10 to 12 cm across. I have been growing this plant for between 10 and 15 years and have seen it bloom twice, once the first fall after I bought it and then not again for several years when it then bloomed in late summer, at least I think that's when it bloomed as it was growing outside. I had removed a third, mature bulb from this "colony" last year and had hoped to be able to move it into a somewhat smaller pot, but the root system was so large and healthy I decided it was best to keep it in the pot it was in.

I had read on Veronica Reed's site, years ago, about how to grow papilio and the difference in the growing season, so I assume I have been growing it correctly, it is just a very shy bloomer. I do not force dormancy on it, preferring to allow it to choose when it wants to rest and even then I do keep the potting mix just moist enough to keep the bulbs from shriveling.

I grow and breed Hemerocallis, commonly called "Daylilies", however, I do have one Hymenocallis, the one called "Peruvian Daffodil". I also grow it in a pot, a 14 inch pot with good depth. I have 2 bulbs in this pot and while both bloomed the first season, only one bloomed for me last summer. I recently re-set the bulbs in their pot in preparation for moving them outside in a couple of months.

Importing plant material from China could be a problem, seeds, however might be mailed in a padded envelop or even a regular envelop. I have not tried mailing any daylily seeds to China, yet, but I do mail seeds to Europe w/o any issues. Importing plant material is getting to be a problem and all the phyto-certification, etc would be required. I do appreciate the offer though. I will have to check out Telos', how would I contact Diana Chapman?


Thank you for your response!

Rebecca

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 Post subject: Re: Hippeastrum
PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 1:21 pm 
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Laur, another fantastic pic of the H. aulicum. You have some amazing species......maybe I will try again with a couple :shock:

I grow my Ammocharis above ground.....I just love seeing the large bulbs above ground. Mine are fed very heavily during the growing season.....very heavily!!! Here is a pic of my small bulb in bloom (this bulb is only 7 cm in diameter by the way):
Image

I think if you want to see blooms you really need to get them overpotted so they can develop massive roots as Luar has pointed out!!

I hope that next year my large 17cm diameter bulbs will bloom as those will be quite spectacular!!

I also have a grapefruit size Ammocharis tinneanae that I got last fall that I kept growing through the winter because I wanted to get the roots reestablished. Then maybe in the summer of 2010 I will see a flower.

Rebecca, another really easy species if H. blossfeldiae. I'm in zone 6 without a greenhouse so if I can grow them you can. The rarer species are a bit more trouble in my climate without a GH.

Now that it is blooming season I look forward to more blooms from Luar!!

I actually had a Worsleya try to bloom last fall, but it aborted....I was totally bummed out as that would have been my first bloom on this spectacular species :D Dan

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 Post subject: Re: Hippeastrum
PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 9:57 pm 
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Thompson & Morgan offered seed of "Hippeastrum procera" (sunk taxon for "Worsleya procera") as early as in 1981. I append below the exact descriptions from the T & M catalogue:

Germination 3-10 weeks, 18-24 oC. Needs no dormant period. Keep growing throughout the year. Use very fibrous soil, slightly acid. Water with rain water only. Allow the pots to dry out thoroughly between each watering. Give the plants as much sunshine as possible without burning the leaves and ventilate well. Do not disturb the roots by frequent potting. Takes 5-6 years to flower from seed. "Once upon a time when the planet Earth was younger, botanists believed that the continent which is now South America harboured a wide range of Amaryllis, many of them truly blue in colour. This one is now the only species left and bears no close relationship to any other species now in existence. Even stranger, it grows only in two or three small colonies on the steep granite rock face 1000 m above sea level, deep in the almost inaccessible highlands of the Brazilian jungle".

Useful cultivation notes and interesting descriptions of the natural habitats but certainly Worsleya is not a jungle plant.


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 Post subject: Re: Hippeastrum
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 4:24 pm 
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Hi Luar,

Most of us in the U.S. and Aus. grow our Worsleya in pure pumice, volcanic cinder or what they call fly ash in OZ........no one really uses "dirt" for growing Worsleya unless you live in Brasil or maybe India (I have a friend who has grown them in Darjeeling for 30 years in soil)......some people use a bit of orchid bark but that is about it. Then they grow in full sun and can take extreme temperatures. Even in this mix you can water rather infrequently.......during their semi-dormancy they can be watered only every couple of weeks......I continue to water mine less and less and less as I grow them longer and learn more about them. For anyone interested in this amazing plant I would suggest they join the Yahoo Worsleya forum as there are some amazing growers from Aus and Mexico on that forum and even some good growers here in the U.S. :D Dan

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 Post subject: Re: Hippeastrum
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 9:32 pm 
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Rebecca,

A friend of mine who lives in New Hamshire maintains a wide range of tropical bulbs. He leaves the bulbs outdoors from late spring to early fall and only removes his bulbs to a heated room during winter time. He suggests that he would try to maintain the minimum winter temperature to about 10 oC, the bulbs would be fine. In fact, several Hippeastrum species, such as H. angustifolium and H. breviflorum, require a chilling period of 6 weeks to about 10 oC for flowering. I am sure there are more species which would grow well in your climate zone, particularly those species which are native to the cool Atlantic Forest of Brasil (e.g. H. aulicum, H. papilio, H. morelianum and H. calyptratum) and those from the high Andes of Bolivia and Peru (e.g. H. machupijchensis, H. anzaldoi and H. cybister).

H. blossfeldiae, as suggested by Dan, is a good candidate for your area - my experience: it took only 3 years flowering this beauty from seed. H. blossfeldiae is a forest species which grows along coastal areas in Rio de Janeiro to Sao Paulo States. I have seen bulbs growing right next to the coastline and shaded hillslopes adjacent to seafront in southern Brasil. I also attach a picture of my bulbs flowering last year.

I suppose there should not be any problem importing seed to the US but the main problems lie in the fact that most Hippeastrum species do not make seed, and that Hippeastrum seeds are rather short-lived. I shall see what I can do and ship a few small pieces whenever your weather permits.

Telos carry a wide range species. I strongly recommend you pay a visit to their web-site at: http://www.telosrarebulbs.com/index.html. Diana has got a great variety of Bomarea if you are into this group of extraordinary plant!!! I have just checked and would like to place an order for something.... Besides, Floral Architecture is also a good supplier though currently his Hippeastrums are sold out: http://www.floralarchitecture.com/home.php. I am sure they will have spare bulbs to offer if you make an enquiry to John. Jim Shields' (http://www.shieldsgardens.com/) lists are very impressive but I have not got a clue if those lists are updated.

Luar


Attachments:
Hippeastrum blossfeldiae.jpg
Hippeastrum blossfeldiae.jpg [ 127.97 KiB | Viewed 2401 times ]


Last edited by Luar on Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Hippeastrum
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:12 pm 
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Dan:

I have got the feelings that you are a keen photographer. Your pictures are always sharp and clear and the subjects are outstanding against a pitch-black background. I use a piece of black cardboard but if you examine my pictures in detail, you will notice that there is a slight reflection. What camera do you use? Any special lighting for photographing? Mine is a Canon Power Shot S3IS which I have been using for nearly 3 years. I bought this model as it has got the super-macro mode which I need for taking close-ups for details of flowers and small plants.

The "miniature" Ammocharis looks terrific and the bulb measures only 7 cm in diameter! How large is the flower head? I wonder if it is the small form from the north-east of the Free State I mentioned in a previous post. I did see smallish Ammocharis coranica flowering along a highway but did not stop and check. As far as I can recall, this small form produces dark purplish-red flowers. It would be most interesting to make close observation and see if your bulb would grow any bigger. Anyway, I shall feed my Ammocharis more often and hope that they will flower more often for me.

So your A. tinneana is more or less of the same size as mine. My bulb does not grow much bigger ever since I imported the bulb from Germany about 5 years ago. I grow all my Ammocharis in pure sand to provide sharp drainage. I am not too worried about our winter but it rains just too much during summer time.

I suppose you have also got A. longifolia (previously Cybistetes longifolia)? I have rescued a very large bulb in a vacant lot on the West Coast of South Africa and transplanted it to a nature reserve nearby. According to a friend of mine who used to live in the area, there were hundreds of bulbs in the area. The bulb I rescued was actually partly sitting underneath an already developed lot. Fortunately, A. longifolia grows in pure sand. It took me about 30 minutes removing the soft sand and eventually took the big bulb out. As the bulb was growing deep in sand, it has developed a very long neck which reminds me of a Worsleya! To me, A. longifolia is just as attractive as A. coranica, just that it is a winter-growing version of A. coranica.

Luar


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 Post subject: Re: Hippeastrum
PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 8:44 pm 
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I attach a picture (taken in 2007) showing a large clump of dormant Boophone haemanthoides bulbs lying on a plot of land on the West Coast, South Africa. The area is very rich in bulbous plants, including: Gethyllis, Brunsvigia orientalis, Ammocharis longifolia, etc. Sadly, all these bulbs will have to be destroyed by a housing project which will take place soon.


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Dormant bulbs of Boophone haemanthoides in the natural habitat.JPG
Dormant bulbs of Boophone haemanthoides in the natural habitat.JPG [ 408.22 KiB | Viewed 2399 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Hippeastrum
PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 11:38 pm 
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Again, thanks for pics.
The B haemanthoides bulbs are huge!! Sad to know the bulbs may be destroied by builder. I really hope someone can save them... Those Boophane must be hundreds years old! Cape regions are magic places , rich in all kinds of flora, hope I can visit in future....


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 Post subject: Re: Hippeastrum
PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 7:47 am 
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Hi Luar, My camera is very old......around 7 years or so and has no real macro function, but it works good enough for me on the further away shots. I used to do a lot of macro photography with my old SLR film camera, but do not have the time or camera equipment anymore.....personally, I think your pics are fantastic and you are kind to say mine look nice :)

The one Ammocharis I do not have is A. longiflora.....I really want that one!!!

Those Bophone haemanthoides are truly amazing......I agree with Yu, I hope that someone with the proper permits can collect those bulbs and get them in to a park or private property so that they can live for another hundred years!!!

I really love all the habitat pics you have been able to take over the years....those must be some wonderful holidays :D Dan

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 Post subject: Re: Hippeastrum
PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 8:02 am 
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Hi Luar, I've been meaning to ask: Do you know Dennis Tsang in Hong Kong? I've admired his pics of plants in habitat for years on various sites and yours are just as amazing!!! Since you live in the same area, both have amazing collections of rare plants I assume you know each other :D Dan

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 Post subject: Re: Hippeastrum
PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 11:26 pm 
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sino wrote:
Again, thanks for pics.
The B haemanthoides bulbs are huge!! Sad to know the bulbs may be destroied by builder. I really hope someone can save them... Those Boophane must be hundreds years old! Cape regions are magic places , rich in all kinds of flora, hope I can visit in future....


Yu, Dan and all:

Yes, these bulbs are huge but they are not heavy. Fact is that the large part which makes up the bulb is the layers of bulb coat. The older a bulb, the thicker the bulb coat. You can get a feel of the age of a bulb by counting the layers of the bulb coat. The living part of the bulb is actually not that big. I have made a rough estimation of one of these wild bulbs and gathered that it was at least 800 years old! In the natural habitats, wild bulbs are often protected by insects and venomous creatures such as snake and spiders. In the Boophone colony shown in the above picture, the bulbs are heavily guarded by ants.

The Western Cape region is definitely a great place for bulbs where are large number of species are endemic to. Depending on your choice of preference, the best time to see bulbs of the amaryllidaceae family is around April but flowering depends of particular species and is subject to factors such as rainfall, temperature, presence of bush fire, etc. I strongly recommend you pay a visit to South Africa as there are so many species to see and places to look around.

Luar


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 Post subject: Re: Hippeastrum
PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 3:52 am 
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PA-Plantguy wrote:
...The one Ammocharis I do not have is A. longiflora.....I really want that one!!!

I really love all the habitat pics you have been able to take over the years....those must be some wonderful holidays

Hi Luar, I've been meaning to ask: Do you know Dennis Tsang in Hong Kong? I've admired his pics of plants in habitat for years on various sites and yours are just as amazing!!! Since you live in the same area, both have amazing collections of rare plants I assume you know each other Dan


Dan:

It seems to me that Ammocharis longiflora is less common in cultivation than Ammocharis coranica. Unlike A. coranica which is widely distributed from southern and south-eastern parts of South Africa through Zimbabwe to tropical east Africa, A. longifolia is confined to the West Coast of South Africa. It is considered a “sandvelt” species. The exceptionally large bulbs grow deep in coastal sand dunes. In cultivation, the bulbs must be either grown on ground or in a deep container. A. longifolia is a winter grower so make sure the bulbs do not get excessive watering when they die back in summer time.

I love holidays and enjoy observing wild bulbs. In botanical tours, I learn a lot on how plant species adapt to the natural environment. As a matter of fact, I am Dennis Tsang. I adopt the username “Luar” in this forum from an exceptionally beautiful clone of Cattleya nobilior coerulea “Luar do Sertao”. I wish there was another person living close by to share the interests in bulbs and going to botanical tours with me but growing bulbous plants is not a popular interest here in Hong Kong. By the way, I am considering going to Bolivia in July and may go with a couple of people to share costs with, etc.

Dennis (Luar)


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 Post subject: Re: Hippeastrum
PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:07 am 
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Hi Luar/Dennis:

That's really a surprise to me, maybe or so to Dan?

Welcome come here again. I am inspired by your Africa bulbs habitat photography for a long time. It is really nice meet you here and have chance to learn more from you.

Off topics, Speaking of orchid, I guess you also have seen many Africa terreist orchid also, any favorite ones?


Yu


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 Post subject: Re: Hippeastrum
PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:25 am 
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Luar wrote:
Rebecca,

A friend of mine who lives in New Hampshire maintains a wide range of tropical bulbs. He leaves the bulbs outdoors from late spring to early fall and only removes his bulbs to a heated room during winter time. He suggests that he would try to maintain the minimum winter temperature to about 10 oC, the bulbs would be fine. In fact, several Hippeastrum species, such as H. angustifolium and H. breviflorum, require a chilling period of 6 weeks to about 10 oC for flowering. I am sure there are more species which would grow well in your climate zone, particularly those species which are native to the cool Atlantic Forest of Brazil (e.g. H. aulicum, H. papilio, H. morelianum and H. calyptratum) and those from the high Andes of Bolivia and Peru (e.g. H. machupijchensis, H. anzaldoi and H. cybister).

H. blossfeldiae, as suggested by Dan, is a good candidate for your area - my experience: it took only 3 years flowering this beauty from seed. . . . . .

I suppose there should not be any problem importing seed to the US but the main problems lie in the fact that most Hippeastrum species do not make seed, and that Hippeastrum seeds are rather short-lived. I shall see what I can do and ship a few small pieces whenever your weather permits. . . . .


Luar


Sorry I am so long in responding.

Thank you so much for this information, very helpful. Your friend and I treat our Amaryllis about the same. outside in late spring and indoors in early fall. My basement stays around 15 -18°C, cooler if I set the pots directly on the floor and against a block wall. The hybrids do well at these temps. H papilio is just an aggravation. It grows very well, just refuses to bloom. I allow it to "do it's own thing" which is generally the exact opposite of when the hybrids are in active growth and/or bloom. I would possibly use H papilio to make a cross or two IF it would bloom so I could harvest it's pollen and freeze it for later use.

As I believe I have stated before, I have several of the H. cybister hybrids. 'Ruby Meyers' has just finished with it's saved scape (had to bring it to flower in water) and I was able to save some pollen to sue on 'Chico' when it blooms (currently putting up it's bloom stalk). I may use the 'Chico' pollen on one of my "full form" seedlings should an appropriate one bloom correspondingly. I am really hoping the 'Ruby Meyers' pollen is good as I feel a cross using 'Chico' with it would yield some very interesting offspring.

While there are a few species that interest me, I am more interested in the hybrids and since "discovering" the H cybister hybrids I am really intrigued by them. I also really love the double flowered ones. Is there a species that blooms double that this trait came from or is this a purely man made trait. I know with my Hemerocallis, there are at least 3 double flowered clonal varieties, only one is somewhat fertile, the others are Triploids. (33 sets of Chromosomes).

This brings up another question, where, if anywhere, can one find information on the polidy of the various species of Hippeastrums OR EVEN the more commonly grown hybrids?

I have mailed seeds within the USA and have been reported that the recipient had decent germination and these seeds had been stored in the fridge for several weeks. So seed viability can vary, at least with hybrids. The trick is to place the fresh seeds in an air tight container (I used small plastic, zip-lock baggies) as soon as the pods split. This technique may also would with certain species better than others, say the ones from cool habitats. And, of course those species that form larger seeds.

I have bookmarked both links and will be checking back with them often.


Rebecca
Central Indianan
Zone 5

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 Post subject: Re: Hippeastrum
PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 6:09 pm 
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Hi Luar, I had a suspicion that you might be Dennis based on being in Hong Kong and the phenominal trips that you have been on and the marvelous habitat photos!!

I seem to have a fair amount of luck growing some winter growing species under HID lights in my basement for the winter as it is cool at night and with the lights on they are rather warm during the day so they get a nice temp shift. I've also got a couple of Tylecodon that do well this way and they really like a lot of light. For things like my Gethyllis and Tylecodon I use a mix of 4 parts volcanic cinder 4 parts perlite and 1 parts soil and for my Brunsvigia I increase this to 2 parts soil as this creates incredible drainage and yet they get lots of nutrients from the volcanic cinder that slowly breaks down and the organics in the soil. I'm sure an Ammocharis longiflora would do well in this mix as well and hopefully I can give one a try in the near future.

Rebecca, I have seed pods of H. striatum that should be opening soon (this is just a cross of one clone on another so true species) so if you would like some seed I can send some if you contract me.

I also have seed pods of Pittcairnia flammea that just opened and are spilling incredibly fine seed everywhere if anyone wants any. I find they are pretty easy to germinate if you toss a thousand seed or so in a 6 inch pot you will get a few dozen seedlings in a couple of months (not sure that qualifies as a good success rate, but you end up with plants which is what counts). If I get any takers I will look at the pods next time I water and see if there are any left in there or if they all went flying into other pots!!

Looking forward to more posts :D Dan

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 Post subject: Re: Hippeastrum
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:37 am 
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Dear all,

I attach an image of Hippeastrum puniceum. Those who are familiar with genus Hippeastrum would tell that "puniceum" is not a botanical rarity. In fact, it is among the most widespread Hippeastrum species which grows naturally from the Caribbean islands, Mexico and Guatemala in central America through Venezuela, Colombia to Argentina and Brasil in the south. The clone shown in the picture below is originally collected in a tropical forest in eastern Peru. Against the background of its widespread distribution, Hippeastrum puniceum is a highly variable species which varies in shade and form. The "alba" form is native to Peru and Acre State in western Brasil. There is also a double cardinal red form which is endemic to Veracruz area in southern Mexico. This form is possibly the only double Hippeastrum species and is a favourite of mine.

Dennis


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Hippeastrum puniceum.JPG
Hippeastrum puniceum.JPG [ 713.53 KiB | Viewed 2397 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Hippeastrum
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:08 pm 
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Luar wrote:
Dear all,

I attach an image of Hippeastrum puniceum. Those who are familiar with genus Hippeastrum would tell that "puniceum" is not a botanical rarity. In fact, it is among the most widespread Hippeastrum species which grows naturally from the Caribbean islands, Mexico and Guatemala in central America through Venezuela, Colombia to Argentina and Brasil in the south. The clone shown in the picture below is originally collected in a tropical forest in eastern Peru. Against the background of its widespread distribution, Hippeastrum puniceum is a highly variable species which varies in shade and form. The "alba" form is native to Peru and Acre State in western Brasil. There is also a double cardinal red form which is endemic to Veracruz area in southern Mexico. This form is possibly the only double Hippeastrum species and is a favourite of mine.

Dennis



Dennis,

This is a nice species for anyone who collects hippies as they could build a nice collection from each area and have all different forms and colors. I prefer your pictured one from Peru, but also like the idea of the white or alba form and you know I am please to hear there is at least this one double flowered (sub-species/variety); I just knew there had to be a specie that bloomed double !

Of course now arises the question how hard is it to get any of the varieties of H puniceum? And are some more suitable for "pot culture" than others? It does sound like it is quite adaptable as a species as far as environmental needs by its ability to not only be widespread but endemic to many of it's habitats. This one might also prove interesting to work with in a breeding program.


Rebecca

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 Post subject: Re: Hippeastrum
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 3:08 pm 
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Hi Luar, Well, I would love to see the double form of H. puniceum. If you ever have seed of this beauty I would love to get some if at all possible. I have a form of puniceum from Mauro in Brasil and it is quite easy and explains its widespread availability. I like puniceum as it is totally dormant for the winter and then the flowers appear from the bare bulbs. This makes it easy to grow. I assume mine will be sending up flower spikes soon or at least I hope so.

Rebecca, I would strongly recommend Mauro Peixoto in Brasil for seed of many nice species. He ships seed that are highly viable, charges very little and is a pleasure to correspond with. Having said that, if my puniceum blooms from more than one bulb I will try to get seed for you. Since all of mine were grown from seed they should all be cross-fertile, but we shall see what I get in terms of flowers.

Good growing all :D Dan

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 Post subject: Re: Hippeastrum
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 3:39 am 
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sino wrote:
......Speaking of orchid, I guess you also have seen many Africa terreist orchid also, any favorite ones? ...


Hi Yu:

I have seen some very nice Disa on Table Mountain, Cape Town. However, Disas are difficult to maintain in cultivation unless you have got a water system providing cold / freezing running water for the tubers and a hot sunny condition for the plants. I think I have taken some interesting pictures of various terrestrial orchids on the Drakensberg and shall see if I can dig out some for posting at the orchid forum.

Dennis


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 Post subject: Re: Hippeastrum
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 4:01 am 
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Rebecca:

I don't know what climate zone New Hamshire belongs to but if my friend has no problem with his tropical species inside a heated room through the winter, you should not have any problem with yours too. I am amazed by the wide varieties of Hippeastrum hybrids particularly the double varieties in view that the double cardinal red form of H. puniceum is the only one I am aware of producing double flowers. Hippeastrum cybister is an unusual species for its refined spidery segments. It does not seem to relate to any other Hippeastrum species, perhaps this explains why it makes a good subject for cross-breeding with other species. You may consider cross-pollinating H. cybister with some of the white trumpet “azuenas” such as H. argentinum, H. solandriflorum or H. pardoii as I believe that the offsprings would produce flowers which look like a long-legged white spider. I am happy to save pollen for you if you would like to give it a try.

Whilst we are on the subject of cross-pollination and hybrids, would you enlighten me if there is any scented Hippeastrum hybrid? There are few perfumed Hippeastrum species (H. brasilianum, H. fragrantissimum and H. doraniae) but would the scent be able to passed onto hybrid offsprings? Apart from H. doraniae which has been used for breeding‘Pink Floyd’, I am not aware of any hybrids involving any of the other 2 scented species. BTW, is ‘Pink Floyd' scented?

Dennis


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 Post subject: Re: Hippeastrum
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 12:20 pm 
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Of course now arises the question how hard is it to get any of the varieties of H puniceum? And are some more suitable for "pot culture" than others? It does sound like it is quite adaptable as a species as far as environmental needs by its ability to not only be widespread but endemic to many of it's habitats. This one might also prove interesting to work with in a breeding program.

Well, I would love to see the double form of H. puniceum. If you ever have seed of this beauty I would love to get some if at all possible. I have a form of puniceum from Mauro in Brasil and it is quite easy and explains its widespread availability. I like puniceum as it is totally dormant for the winter and then the flowers appear from the bare bulbs. This makes it easy to grow. I assume mine will be sending up flower spikes soon or at least I hope so.


Rebecca, Dan and all:

H. puniceum adapts easily to a wide range of environment and it seems that the species enjoys being neglected. It is a dwarf species and makes great pot plants. One great thing about raising small species is, as Dan suggests, they take a relatively shorter period of time to reach flowering size. It is quite possible that seedlings would produce their first flowers within 3 years. Apart from "puniceum", there are quite a number of small species which you may consider adding to your collection: "blossfeldiae", "striatum", "traubii", etc. In Japan, miniature Hippeastrum cultivars have been developed using "striatum" as a parent plant.

Back to "puniceum", I vaguely recall that the "alba" form has been offered by a plant nursery in the US. I do have both the "alba" form and the "double" form. The "alba" form has never flowered for me but bulbs which I have given to my friends do flower every year! My "double" form, whose bulbs are of the same clone, has flowered for me but only once every 3 to 4 years. As "puniceum" is a self-sterile species which has to have at least 2 clones to make seed, there is no way I can get seed of the "double" form unless I have got a different clone. Fortunately, "punicum" produces a lot of small bulbs. I have got hundreds of small bulbs (both the "alba" and "double" forms) if you guys are interested. Please send me an e-mail with your address and I shall ship some small bulbs over this weekend.

Dennis


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 Post subject: Re: Hippeastrum
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 12:33 pm 
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... and now, my Hippeastrum pardinum is flowering beautifully. The last time it flowered for me was in 1996 (see picture I posted to the International Bulb Society Bulb Gallery: http://www.bulbsociety.org/GALLERY_OF_T ... dinum.html). After flowering, the mother bulb died, leaving behind a tiny side bulb. I cannot believe that it took more than 10 years before the side bulb turns mature and flowers for me. The clone which is shown in the picture below has got clear red dots and the perianth tube is almost absent. Len Doran had viewed the pictures I took in 1996 and confirmed that it is a true "pardinum".


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 Post subject: Re: Hippeastrum
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 3:48 pm 
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Luar wrote:
Rebecca:

I don't know what climate zone New Hamshire belongs to but if my friend has no problem with his tropical species inside a heated room through the winter, you should not have any problem with yours too. I am amazed by the wide varieties of Hippeastrum hybrids particularly the double varieties in view that the double cardinal red form of H. puniceum is the only one I am aware of producing double flowers. Hippeastrum cybister is an unusual species for its refined spidery segments. It does not seem to relate to any other Hippeastrum species, perhaps this explains why it makes a good subject for cross-breeding with other species. You may consider cross-pollinating H. cybister with some of the white trumpet “azuenas” such as H. argentinum, H. solandriflorum or H. pardoii as I believe that the offsprings would produce flowers which look like a long-legged white spider. I am happy to save pollen for you if you would like to give it a try.

Whilst we are on the subject of cross-pollination and hybrids, would you enlighten me if there is any scented Hippeastrum hybrid? There are few perfumed Hippeastrum species (H. brasilianum, H. fragrantissimum and H. doraniae) but would the scent be able to passed onto hybrid offsprings? Apart from H. doraniae which has been used for breeding‘Pink Floyd’, I am not aware of any hybrids involving any of the other 2 scented species. BTW, is ‘Pink Floyd' scented?

Dennis



Dennis,

I do not grow 'Pink Floyd' myself, but I do know several who do. Some say it h as a light fragrance while others say they can not detect any. I think it depends on how their particular bulb was propagated. If grown through bulb slicing or offsets then there should not be any lose on the fragrance. If propagated through tissue culture, then I feel fragrance can be lost as there is some gene mutation that happens in this process as well as damage to some genes or even just a part of a gene.

As for passing the trait along when crossing know fragrant species, if one actually breeds for fragrance as well as other traits then it is entirely possible to create a line of fragrant Hippeastrum hybrids.

I know that with my work with a few fragrant Daylilies (Hemerocallis) I have been able to keep the fragrance in several seedlings and slightly different fragrance depending on the species use when a line was first started (the primary hybrid population). There are more fragrant Spider and Unusual Forms (it seems) that are fragrant than the full formed hybrids. This may be due in part to these lines of breeding being more closely related the the parent species.

Dennis, just how long does Hippeastrum pollen remain viable with out refrigeration?

I do not have H. cybister, only primary and or secondary hybrids from it. Most notably 'Ruby Meyers', 'Emerald' and 'Chico' ( at this time). I am hoping to cross 'Chico' with 'Ruby Meyers' using the pollen I have gathered on a Q-tip and frozen (RM finished blooming a week ago and 'Chico' won't be in bloom for at least another 2 weeks! Eventually I hope to get H. cybister and a couple of other species to work with on a very small scale. ( Don't have a lot of room inside or outside to grow out a lot of seedlings, regardless of how big they eventually get!)

Now then for a totally off topic question, are Hippeastrum species (or even primary hybrids) compatible with Rhodophiala species? A friend has managed to get seeds of Rhodophiala splendens, montana and rhodolirion and has asked that very question on another group I am on. I believe she is interested in trying it with H. cybister and possibly it's hybrids.

Thanks guys, you're the best!



Rebecca

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 Post subject: Re: Hippeastrum
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 6:36 am 
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Wow, that pardinum is absolutely the most beautiful Hippi I have seen.....just spectacular!! 10 years to flower....amazing patience and thankfully the offset survived....I hope momma does not perish this time around.

I will send you a message via the forum to give you my addy.....I would love to get a small bulb of each of the H. puniceum for the collection and coming from a great grower always makes them more special :D Dan

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 Post subject: Re: Hippeastrum
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 8:43 am 
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Dennis,

I'm with Dan; your Hippeastrum pardinum is spectacular!

I have seen this "stippled color" in a few of my Daylilies and found it to be a most worthy trait (other folks don't and some are undecided!) The extremely flat face really serves to emphasize the stippling and the depth of the color that not only extends into the "throat" but is also nicely represented on the petal reverse.

May you enjoy years of repeat performances from this species and I wish you many, many offsets form it!



Rebecca

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 Post subject: Re: Hippeastrum
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 2:01 pm 
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Hi Dennis

The Hippeastrum pardinum is very very nice. The red dot pattern is quite uniqe character of this species. I really admire your patience of 10+ years. Great job!

Yu


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 Post subject: Re: Hippeastrum
PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 8:14 pm 
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Rebecca47 wrote:
....
I have seen this "stippled color" in a few of my Daylilies and found it to be a most worthy trait (other folks don't and some are undecided!) The extremely flat face really serves to emphasize the stippling and the depth of the color that not only extends into the "throat" but is also nicely represented on the petal reverse...


Hello Rebecca:

Sorry it has taken me a long time to respond to your posts as I have been hectic. Yes, the spot pattern of "pardinum" is rather interesting and unusual for Hippeastrum. I have checked a botanical dictionary and come up with this one "pardalinus / pardalina / pardinalum" which means "leopard spotted". I don't know if "pardinalus" is equivalent to "pardinum" but it occurs to me that the meaning is applicable to Hippeastrum pardinum. Anyway, the Hippeastrum pardinum flowers have faded. I have collected pollen if anybody would like to use it for cross-pollinating with other species please drop me a line.

I have seen pictures of Daylilies which come in a wide range of colours. The colour forms which are commonly cultivated in Hong Kong include an orange and a yellow form which I have no idea what cultivars they are. The "stippled colour" form you mention is most interesting. Any pictures for the forum?

Dennis


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 Post subject: Re: Hippeastrum
PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 8:33 pm 
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... just how long does Hippeastrum pollen remain viable with out refrigeration?

Now then for a totally off topic question, are Hippeastrum species (or even primary hybrids) compatible with Rhodophiala species? A friend has managed to get seeds of Rhodophiala splendens, montana and rhodolirion and has asked that very question on another group I am on. I believe she is interested in trying it with H. cybister and possibly it's hybrids.


I have not tested how long Hippeastrum pollen would remain viable without refrigeration but suppose people who collect pollen would either use it immediately or refrigerate it for future use. I keep the collected pollen with silica gel in plastic capsule to reduce moisture.

Rhodophiala, as well as Phycella, was once grouped under genus Hippeastrum, therefore, these genera must be closely related to each other. In fact, these genera share quite a lot of common featuers except that foliage of Rhodophiala is much narrower than Hippeastrum. It would be most interesting cross-pollinating Rhodophiala with Hippeastrum and see whether they are compatible. As far as I know it, no one has cross-pollinated species among Rhodophiala. In fact, very little is known on compatibility among Rhodophiala species. H. cybister is a self-fertile species and is unique having a spidery look. It is definitely a good subject to use for cross-pollinating with other species.


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 Post subject: Re: Hippeastrum
PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 10:14 pm 
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Quote:
I have not tested how long Hippeastrum pollen would remain viable without refrigeration but suppose people who collect pollen would either use it immediately or refrigerate it for future use. I keep the collected pollen with silica gel in plastic capsule to reduce moisture.

Rhodophiala, as well as Phycella, was once grouped under genus Hippeastrum, therefore, these genera must be closely related to each other. In fact, these genera share quite a lot of common features except that foliage of Rhodophiala is much narrower than Hippeastrum. It would be most interesting cross-pollinating Rhodophiala with Hippeastrum and see whether they are compatible. As far as I know it, no one has cross-pollinated species among Rhodophiala. In fact, very little is known on compatibility among Rhodophiala species. H. cybister is a self-fertile species and is unique having a spidery look. It is definitely a good subject to use for cross-pollinating with other species.


I would like to try this pollen on my H.'Chico' that is about ready to bloom, if you think the pollen will remain viable long enough for the trip to the States.

I will pass this info on to my friend, even though it will be several years before she has any seedlings mature enough to bloom! She is the impatient type and thinks way to far ahead!

I will chance up loading an image of a Tet Hemerocallis seedling of mine that has this stippled color. My photography isn't as good as yours and this is a lousy shot, but I lost all of my better images last season before I had a chance to back up my image files. Bummer. I also has 3 diploid seedling from 2 different crosses (same pollen donor), but when I try to find more than one image my system crashes due to an incompatibility somewhere along the line. Only seems to happen with this site, so it may be this particular phpBB program version.

there are registered cultivars out there with a much more modern "look" than mine, but I do this for fun, not for profit so "cutting edge" isn't all that important.


Will PM you with my mail;ing address and full name,



Rebecca

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