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 Post subject: Bio-tone...
PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2006 12:55 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 7:30 am
Posts: 134
Location: Southeast Pennsylvania
I never saw it before this year, but have been trying it out in the seed flats and yowza! Big advantage!

This is one of the Espoma products (Holly-tone, etc.)... except that it has a long list of beneficial bacteria and fungi in it to get the plants moving. The Pac Chois are well over twice the size in the innoculated flats (I tried against my mix without it, and a very good commercial mix (Farfard)).

Not sure if it's available to civilians yet... anyone seen it in a non-commercial store?

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 Post subject: Re: Bio-tone...
PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2006 2:16 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 3:44 pm
Posts: 204
Location: zone 5 SE Wisconsin
I replied already, but must have missed the part where I hit 'submit' :D

What do you mean by 'non commerical store'?

Anyway, I looked at the espoma web site to see what was in the product. 3% nitrogen and several Bacillus bacteria.

I found an interesting link on bacillus bacteria. I always wondered how they could survive the way they are packaged because there is no oxygen for them. Turns out bacillus are aerobes, but they are also spore forming. Every 6-7 hours they multiply via spores. These spores are evidently capable of surviving just about any conditions indefinitely.

They are also believed to be primarily soil dwelling bacteria and the ones listed in the product are non pathogenic so seems like it would be good stuff.

Here is the link I was reading. http://textbookofbacteriology.net/Bacillus.html


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2006 2:18 pm 
The only problem is that Espoma products are not organic products. I never use them for that reason.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2006 2:43 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 3:44 pm
Posts: 204
Location: zone 5 SE Wisconsin
Yeah, I always wondered why they felt the need to make great products and then add a dash of synthetic fert to them.

It's like, People, just quit tossing in that pinch of NPK fertilizer already.

LOL.

Still, are there other sources of the non pathogenic Bacillus bacteria like what this product offers?

I wonder. I would imagine a lot of these would be in a tea. Given their ability to form endospores they would indeed have a long shelf life, even after O2 was removed.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2006 4:04 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 7:30 am
Posts: 134
Location: Southeast Pennsylvania
Yeah, that bugs me about it too... all organic ingredients but the very last one: "Sulfate of Potash of Magnesia". So close! (BTW, Mike Mcgrath (the organic radio guy) often recommends their stuff... but then again he recommends "promix", which is chock-full of synthetic ferts.) It's close enough for most purposes though, and it smells nice :).

The stuff I have is "Starter Plus", which has the following organisms (just made new pages for all these on wiki, in the hopes that someone else will do the research for me):

Glomus aggregatum
Glomus intraradices
Rhizopogon vulgaris
Rhizopogon villosuli
Rhizopogon subscaerelescens
Rhizopogon roseolus
Laccaria bicolor
Scleroderma cepa
Scleroderma citrinni
Pisiolithus tinctorius
Rhodococcus rhodochorus
Arthrobacter agilis
Acidovorax facilis
Pseudomonas putida
Pseudomonas alcaligenes
Paenibacillus polymyxa
Bacillus lentimorbus
Bacillus pumilis
Bacillus oleronius
Bacillus marinus
Bacillus megaterium
Pseudomonas chlororaphis
Bacillus licheniformis
Bacillus subtilis

Heard of those? ;)

Oh, I should have said "non-professional"... the only place I've been able to find it is in places that are "wholesale to the trade only", which is a bit annoying because I don't know what the retail price is supposed to be (I'm a horticulturist).

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2006 4:40 pm 
Well, it's more than just a pinch or just one ingredent:

Espoma Organic 18-8-6 ( there are no organic fertilizers with an N of 18 )

Derived from: dehydrated manure (ok), feather meal (ok), Ureaform (Not ok, not organic), super phosphate ( Not OK, not organic) Sulfate of Potash (Not ok, Not organic)

Not even close to being organic.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2006 9:45 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 3:44 pm
Posts: 204
Location: zone 5 SE Wisconsin
SB_Johnny wrote:
The stuff I have is "Starter Plus", which has the following organisms (just made new pages for all these on wiki, in the hopes that someone else will do the research for me):


Sure, why not. I love this stuff.

Much of these are mycorrhizal fungi.

Fungi form two kinds of mycorrhizae: those that penetrate the cell wall of the plant's root and those that do not. The ones that do not are called ectomycorrhizal; those that do are called endomycorrhizal or, more commonly today, VAM fungi.

Quote:
Glomus aggregatum
Glomus intraradices


Some regard these as the same fungi. Grows in soil or plant roots. Endomycorrhizal.
link

Quote:
Rhizopogon vulgaris
Rhizopogon villosuli
Rhizopogon subscaerelescens
Rhizopogon roseolus


Rhizopogon is a genus of basidiomycetes that form
ectomycorrhizal symbioses with members of the Pinaceae
(Molina et al. 1999). Rhizopogon occidentalis and Rhizopogon vulgaris are common in western North American forests where they are ectomycorrhzial associates exclusively with pines (Kj?ller & Bruns 2003).
link

If you have pine trees, seems like good stuff, otherwise, seems pointless.

Quote:
Laccaria bicolor


An edible, but not very good tasting mushroom. Also found in pine forests. link
link2

May form symbiotic relationship with roots of pine/spruce trees. Ectomycorrhizal.

Quote:
Scleroderma cepa
Scleroderma citrinni


Another EctoMycorrhiza fungi. This one makes poisonous shrooms. link
May assist roots.

Quote:
Pisiolithus tinctorius


Another mycorrhizal fungi. Only with conifer seedlings though, reportedly.
link
link2

Quote:
Rhodococcus rhodochorus


Dunno, all the info I could find on this bacteria were off the geek-o-meter scale. Couldn't understand a word of it.

Quote:
Arthrobacter agilis
Acidovorax facilis
Pseudomonas putida
Pseudomonas alcaligenes
Paenibacillus polymyxa
Bacillus lentimorbus
Bacillus pumilis
Bacillus oleronius
Bacillus marinus
Bacillus megaterium
Pseudomonas chlororaphis
Bacillus licheniformis
Bacillus subtilis


These are all bacteria that are believed to outcompete pathogenic bacteria. Many of them are considered 'pro-biotics'. This means humans intentionally ingesting them to have healthy bacteria in them. At a minimum the bacillus are virtually indestructable due to their forming spores when dormant.
link


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 6:48 am 
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Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 7:30 am
Posts: 134
Location: Southeast Pennsylvania
Wow, thanks!

I know more about the bacteria than the fungi, actually. Mostly antagonists.

Anyone know of a "true organic" innoculation mix?

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