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 Post subject: Let's get this forum going
PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2006 8:18 pm 
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Location: Raleigh, NC
I asked in "Happy Hour" for people to come to this forum to discuss how organics affect their lives and health. I know I have all kinds of "soap boxes" to get on about many different parts of this subject. My family has been adversely affected and is doing better, with much attention to our foodstock. I firmly believe we all suffer, in small increments at a time, every time we put that perfect looking fruit or vegetable in our mouths. (That perfect looking fruit or vegetable that has nearly no nutrients, but is packed with the chemicals that made it so pretty and pest free). We suffer eating beef and dairy that is full of antibiotics and growth hormones. ::stepping down off a small soap box::
What do you think about what is happening to our food?

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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2006 9:00 pm 
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Location: Arkansas zone 8A
I just bought 2 books on organic gardening. They were (Rodale's All-New Encyclopedia of Organic Gardening : The Indispensable Resource for Every Gardener)
and The Organic Gardener's Handbook of Natural Insect and Disease Control : A Complete Problem-Solving Guide to Keeping Your Garden and Yard Healthy Without Chemicals.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2006 10:04 pm 
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Location: zone 5 SE Wisconsin
I am not sure what is happening to our food. I read the link you provided in your other post and I have read similar material in the past and it is really alarming.

Unfortunately I am a skeptic at heart. Raised fundy Christian, now atheist. Just the way I am wired.

I read the material and I don't see evidence the claims of lowered nutritional value of modern produce are true. I see claims, but not evidence. Measuring sweetness as an indicator of nutritional value (as the article you linked to in the other post did) seems like it may not be valid. I don't know. Point is I need to understand why I should believe sweetness is a valid indicator of nutritional value.

Now, this business of doping up cattle I don't like one bit. But I don't know if the claims regarding low nutritional value in modern produce grown with synthetic ferts hold water or not.

Would like to see some studies on the produce from rich, organic amended soil vs. sterile cropland fed with synthetics compared.


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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2006 10:33 pm 
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Location: PNW
I would think there would be some missing nutrients in non organic food since so much soil life must be killed by the chemicals and that soil life assists plants nutrient uptake, among other things. I know chemical fertilizers provide some of the nutrients, but it's no better than us taking vitamin pills. We can't live on vitamins alone because there are missing factors and I believe it's the same for plants, but that's just my opinion.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2006 8:06 am 
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Location: Pt. Orchard, WA
Have you ever tasted a vine ripe tomato, or a truely ripe melon straight from the vine? Compare that to the truck-ripened things in the store. There is no way that a tomato picked when just barely beginning to turn red compares in nutrition to one from the garden. I've tasted cantaloupe, field grown that is almost too sweet, but from a supermarket? Bland.

And chemical defences in the garden are doing the same that penicellin did for man. Pests and diseases are becoming resistant. Remember back in the 50s and 60s? That wonderful pesticide DDT? 40 years later, traces can still be found in the food chain! Recent studies have found sexual disfunction in fish caused by hormones that pass thru treatment plants and end up in the river systems. That's right, the heavy use of birth control pills.

I grew up on a self sufficient small farm. Dad didn't pump up the chickens, just let them 'free range'. Never saw anything that would be called a medium egg, and the yolks were orange not yello. Until I was married and bought chicken in the stores, I'd never seen a fryer less than 5 pounds, and never had seen chicken fat before.

Every spring that pile of manure behind the barn was plowed into the garden. As a child, pulling carrot, wiping the dirt off on my jeans and eating it was fine. Today's sterile environment does not let kids get exposed to germs, they never get a chance to build up immunity; they get sick more often.

As a proud 'ageless' hippie; I've always maintained that mankind will not fade away because some nuclear holocast, but from his own hand; his own foolishness; his own folly.

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 Post subject: on earth as it is in heaven
PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2006 3:49 pm 
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Location: San Antonio Zone 8/9
most people tend to forget this part of the prayer when they think of life on this planet. Id highly doubt that in heaven there are smoke belching cars oil derricks and chemical plants. Its also hard for me believe that any fruit in heaven would be loaded with chemicals...
Also, to talk to username. A few people may say that there is no heaven or hell but just how you spend life on this planet now. I can see some truth in it and I can imagine its good to spend life not surrounded by pollution...maybe thats heaven in its self

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2006 7:25 pm 
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Location: Southeast Pennsylvania
Funny story from a family shopping trip last friday:

My daughter was in the cart and kept eating grapes, despite my wife's pleas that she stop, as she was worried about pesticided on them (they hadn't been washed, of course). So she got a box of fig newtons and tried to convince her to eat those instead. Caroline wanted nothing to do with the cookies, and I was laughing at my wife for telling our child not to eat fruit, but cookies instead :).

Bit of a moral quandry there, but I figured it was better to encourage fruit over cookies, even if there might be a trace of something on the grapes.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2006 10:10 pm 
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I'd have to side with your wife if they were non organic grapes. :) They put a lot of stuff on them that I wouldn't want to eat.
She picked a decent cookie to entice her with! :D
It seems your daughter is well trained, though, preferring fruit over cookies.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2006 7:32 am 
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Location: Houston
luv2grdn wrote:
I'd have to side with your wife if they were non organic grapes. :) They put a lot of stuff on them that I wouldn't want to eat.
She picked a decent cookie to entice her with! :D
It seems your daughter is well trained, though, preferring fruit over cookies.


Good point, you've taught your daughter good eating habbits.

Maybe you should start bringing the vegetable wash to the store with you.

:)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2006 6:02 pm 
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Location: Southeast Pennsylvania
Vegetable wash? I hope you're kiding! :)

Keep in mind this little girl lives on an organic farm.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2006 9:17 pm 
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Location: Zone 8 Northeast Texas
Quote:
What do you think about what is happening to our food?
Now, when we talk about organic, we can only be talking about "somewhat" organic, unless we live on a desert island or something, raise our food from seed, grow non-genetically modified animals for food, and so on.

My neighbors on both sides, and the back, overspray chemical fertilizers, insecticides, pesticides, and various other homicidal poisons for whatever plant/weed/pest/pet/infant they come into contact with. My little oasis in the middle of the desert is assaulted from all directions in continuous attacks on all things bad, and most things good, that live. Period.

Indeed, I spend all my time nurturing everything organically in a non-organic environment. If I get garden veggies from a nursery center (even my daughters) to set out in my raised beds, I am contaminating those raised beds with chemicals.

And don't think for a moment the chemo corporate giants aren't happy everyone is spraying away, or buying those nursery tomato plants that are monetarily advantageous to the retailer. Those chemo pushers know they can zap my little oasis in a heartbeat, or the lack of one.

Until organic interests have big lobbyists groups, and spread the wealth to the fat cats in Washington like those chemical companies (who just happen to be all in bed with big oil), organics will not even amount to a tiny splinter in the fat ass of the government hog.

Chuckiebtoo

But I keep trying.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2006 5:20 am 
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Location: Southeast Pennsylvania
Looks like a bit of lobbying power has just come into play, actually. Wal Mart wants to sell more organic stuff now...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2006 9:26 am 
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I think I'll stick to my local natural foods store. :wink: I really don't like the thought of big chains going organic. They'd take away business from the stores that have always had organics.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2006 9:59 am 
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I also wonder if the quality will start to suffer. Part of the nice thing about organic produce (until recently) was that it tended to come from small local producers, and so was fresh and carefully grown by loving hands. Industrializing it sort of takes away the "personality" of the food.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 6:52 pm 
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Location: Zone 8 Northeast Texas
organically deleted.

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Last edited by chuckiebtoo on Fri Nov 17, 2006 7:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 8:37 am 
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Location: Pt. Orchard, WA
Boy, you've got that right! I recall seeing pictures of the farm in CA involved in the recent e-coli spinach fiasco; big sign on the building "ORGANIC". Then just a week back, we had an outbreak here in WA cause by raw milk from an 'Organic' dairy.

Supermarkets (think big business) have been keen to jump on the bandwagon; with pricing to match. Yet I wonder if the farmer is getting a better deal for organic methods than the one using conventional methods? As it is, business does little for it's profit but pocket it. The farmer gets very little of that final price.

And this morning, another recall for tainted beef. Isn't it sad this continues to happen? We are spending billions on (supposed) Homeland Security while our business ethics, and safety in food resources take a back seat.

America has become fat and grown lazy. Spinach; grows like a weed, yet we need to buy it in fancy (and wastefull) plastic packaging. Salad mixes (wish I can come up with that one) contain maybe 1/4 head of lettuce, but we shell out $2 - $3 for it! WHY?? Just cause it has a few carrot and red cabbage shreds?.

I used parsley as edging in the flower bed; nice green color and bushy. It's nothing for me to grab a handful to munch on while I'm in the garden. Someone mentioned it was a 'health food' so I looked it up. Holy cow; really good stuff. But was I eating it because of that? No! I was eating it cause I like the flavor. I have found many of the things I eat are extremely healthy, but that isn't why I do it. It's the way I was raised. Growing up dirt poor must have it's advantages after all.

I drive along the road and see these beautiful green lawns and think "what a waste" How many billions do we waste on that look? And no doubt that the greener and well trimmed; the more of those plastic bags you will find in the landfill. I was born here; spent my entire 56 years here, and the color green is becoming disgusting. If it doesn't have better colors in bloom or isn't producing food; it doesn't grow here!!

OK, enough of my early morning rant. Basically; one big business grabs onto a term like "organic", you can bet they will pervert it.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 12:27 pm 
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Location: PNW
I was in Costco yesterday and saw a woman giving out samples of organic V8 juice. I didn't trust that very much. I decided to go through the entire food section, something I never do there, to see what other things were labled organic. I didn't see anything else from the big companies, but saw some of the Amy's brand and some organic fresh produce, ready to eat salad mix and sliced apples. (which didn't catch my inerest) and some Emerald Valley's Kitchen products, so I'm glad to see they're being included. Sliced apples seemed a little rediculous to me, though. This world has gotten way too busy if you can't find the time to slice an apple. It was like trying to find a needle in a haystack, though, so I won't be looking for food there very often, besides the fact that we don't need the jumbo sized products.
I hope to grow more vegies next summer. I devoted this summer to working on pathways and getting rock mortared in around my vegie beds. I'm putting in fava beans as a cover crop to keep next springs weeds down and improve the soil. I have some broccoli about ready to harvest now and I have a lot of volunteer Kale and a few tomatoes left. I had a good apple crop and our grapes produced fruit for the first time and they're very good. I've never liked the green grapes we can grow here and never found another I liked until this one, Canadice, if I spelled that right. I think our warmer weather this fall sweetened them up good.
Have any of you here done mail order meats? I'd like to get some bison/buffalo and ostrich, since our local stores mainly have just the packaged patties and sometimes ground meat, but rarely in bulk. I've come across some growers in the US who have grass fed buffalo, without antibiotics and growth hormones, but I'm a little leary of buying without knowing someone who has.
I think I'll get out my flamer and go after the new weed sprouts today and hopefully lessen my weeding chores next spring. I've never gone after them in the fall before, I usually wait until late winter, but this way I can get rid of more a lot faster since they're so small. I'm putting down newspaper and mulch in some areas too, to smother some, but I can't do it everywhere.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 12:59 pm 
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Location: zone 7a-OKC
No, I've never heard of mail order meats, actually, except for the summer sausage stuff. I buy my meat at Homeland fka Safeway. I especially am glad they started carrying the hormon-free, etc., chicken. At first, it was really expensive, but they have come down on their price a lot in the last year.

I try to do some organic shopping. More and more of the big box stores are carrying organic products, like veggies and eggs. I'm glad to see that. I remember when eggs used to taste a lot better than they do now, before they developed hormones to feed them to make the grow faster, and kept them locked up in boxes. I much prefer the free-range, hormone-free meats and eggs.

Susan


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 8:49 pm 
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I personally don't trust the big box stores myself.They often have grower names I'm not familiar with and often just don't look very good, like they were the discards from a better store. I hope they don't start selling more, because they'll run the smaller whole foods grocers out of business, who have always offered good quality meats and vegies, among other things. They're much nicer to shop in too, more friiendly. I've gotten to know employees at the one I go to and I always get a nice greeting from them. Just a nicer shopping experience overall, in my opinion.
There are several mail order meat companies. If you do a search for organic meat or specify a meat, you'll find them.
My mom doesn't like the meat from typical chain stores any more after eating the meat from the store we go to, so she always waits to go with us. This is after many years of buying meat in the common grocery stores, so that says a lot.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 7:54 am 
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They suckered you Swallowtail! Hormones have been banned in the 60s in meats. There was a big stink about the 'Hormone-free" claims last year and several chains were fined for deceptive advertising.

This is exactly the point I was making about big business ethics; or lack of them.

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 Post subject: Mail Order Organic Meats
PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 12:46 pm 
Luv2garden et al - this organic/free-range meat farm is right around the corner from us, & we've visited there & purchased several times. Have always been happy. Now of course, since they're so close by I've never mail-ordered from them, but can definitely attest to the way the animals are raised. All poultry is pastured, & the bison, goats, & heritage Tamworth pigs live a semi-wild existence in large fields & woodlands.

http://www.secondary.lfchosting.com/cib ... bolafarms/


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 2:21 pm 
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Thanks Breezy. I didn't come across that one in my search. Lucky you to live near it. I'd be a regular there.
Here's another place: http://www.blackwing.com/
It offers a bigger variety of meats. I have no experience with them, though.


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 Post subject: Eat locally!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 3:45 pm 
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Location: Mt. Pleasant SC
I recently read a book by Micheal Pollin called "The Omnivores Dilema". I highly recomend that you check it out from the library. Changed my whole way of thinking about how my family eats. It got me starting to work towards growing as much food myself as possible. I also have started buying meats from local pastural producers and it is just like vegs and fruit from your own garden out of this world delicious. There is a movement afoot called Local Harvest where I found these local farmers. It has lists of local farmers accross the counrty. I will try to link it below. Tried but don't know how to link yet but you can cut and paste to your browser. Tim
http://www.localharvest.org/


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 8:50 pm 
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Thanks so much for that link tjs. I found several farms in my area that I hadn't heard of and I'll be checking into them.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 9:04 pm 
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Location: zone 5 SE Wisconsin
luv2grdn wrote:
Thanks so much for that link tjs. I found several farms in my area that I hadn't heard of and I'll be checking into them.


Me too, the link is really helpful in finding local area farmers who sell food products grown in more natural ways.

I think this is definitely a case of 'buyer beware' because being small, independent and "organic" is in no way a guarantee of healthy or quality, but it certainly is a good start.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 3:09 am 
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Hello ! I just love your lil red hen Avator and I grow organic :D .. I am so into it !!
After getting really ill from the chemicals on some imported strawberrys and then the mango's broke me out :roll: I garden .


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 Post subject: New..."Beekeeping"
PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 9:55 pm 
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Location: Raleigh, NC
At first I thought this would go in the "Organics" part of the forum's topics.
I asked about it in "Happy Hour" and Dan, (thanks Dan), put it as a sole forum.
Please visit and post.

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