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<  Cacti & Succulents  ~  My sowing 2010

PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:40 am
User avatarJoined: Thu May 14, 2009 3:54 pmPosts: 204Location: Ellrich, Thuringia, Germany
Today I had a day off. What should I better doing as sow. That's never boring. :wink:
Thank you for the seeds, Ed. :D

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Image

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Enjoy your day
Ralf



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 12:56 pm
User avatarJoined: Thu May 04, 2006 11:27 amPosts: 791Location: Miami, Florida
What's the red stuff, gravel?

Nice set up.

Emy


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 1:39 pm
User avatarJoined: Thu May 14, 2009 3:54 pmPosts: 204Location: Ellrich, Thuringia, Germany
The red stuff is called in German ="Kieselgur"
in English = "diatomite" or "infusorial earth"
I hope the translation will be right, Emy.

Have a nice day
Ralf



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 2:57 pm
User avatarJoined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 6:52 amPosts: 5257Location: UK
Kieselguhr is usually considered to be German for Diatomaceous Earth or Diatomite. I assume you are using calcined granules since they're pink. Do you know if they are actually a clay mix like a Moler? I know there are some Diatomite mines in Eastern Europe but I think most deposits are mixed with clay. All the Diatomaceous Earth in the UK seems to be Moler from Denmark. It goes much darker when its wet.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 3:44 pm
User avatarJoined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 4:13 amPosts: 510Location: Germany - Jena
hej Ralf,

nice setup! What genera did you sow? :D



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 3:48 pm
User avatarJoined: Thu May 04, 2006 11:27 amPosts: 791Location: Miami, Florida
Ralf,

Are the entire pots filled with this product?

Emy


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 3:58 pm
User avatarJoined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:42 amPosts: 1217Location: 51Degr NL, Europe
shrubs_n_bulbs wrote:
Kieselguhr is usually considered to be German for Diatomaceous Earth or Diatomite. I assume you are using calcined granules since they're pink. Do you know if they are actually a clay mix like a Moler? I know there are some Diatomite mines in Eastern Europe but I think most deposits are mixed with clay. All the Diatomaceous Earth in the UK seems to be Moler from Denmark. It goes much darker when its wet.


That red stuff very much looks like calcined clay, formerly known as "Argex" .. thought it was "Bla(h?)ton", "Lecaton"? in German? (Turface? in the USA?)
Is this a newer variant of the material?

The difference between Diatomite and pumice seems very hard to make ... There are quite some sources for all sorts of pumice in Germany (Eifel) one is commercialized by "Vulkatec" .. that's the one I use (2-5 mm granulation) :wink:
FWIW

BTW Ralf .. you are an early bird for sowing :D .. althogh it is itching here, I try to wait a bit longer ...



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 4:58 pm
User avatarJoined: Thu May 04, 2006 11:56 amPosts: 518Location: Sweden - Landvetter
Nice job Ralf !
I want to start sow here to, but i have a problem.
Most of the things i need like sand etc are buried
under 60 cm of snow..... :cry:
I have to dig them up soon.



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 5:00 pm
User avatarJoined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 6:52 amPosts: 5257Location: UK
Quote:
The difference between Diatomite and pumice seems very hard to make


The difference? Diatomaceous Earth is almost entirely silica in the shape that it was formed by sea creatures, although often crushed and broken. It is a sedimentary rock and contains extremely tiny pores. It is found either in relatively pure form or mixed with clay. For example, I think Moler is a little over half clay. It is a dirty white in raw form and turns pinkish when it is baked. Surprisingly absorbant, dry granules hiss as they absorb water into the tiny interior pores. It is considerably lighter than water but doesn't float because it quickly absorbs water.

Pumice is a glass with bubbles in. Chemically it is based on silica but always with other minerals. The bubbles are formed by gases when it was molten, not by a microscopic animal. Both the pores and the walls between the pores are thicker than Diatomaceous Earth. The pores can be extremely large in some forms of volcanic rock, for example scoria. Scorias tend to be low in silca and more strongly coloured. Usually slightly lighter than water but doesn't float well because it will absorb water. Seems to absorb less than diatomaceous earth granules, perhaps because many of the interior pores are closed off.

Turface is entirely clay, baked hard. Chemically this is quite different and not mainly silica, but the silicates, aluminosilicates, etc, that you would find in clay. It is porous but does not have as many pores as most pumice or diatomaceous granules. If you imagine a crushed brick or crushed piece of fired pottery then you're close. In my experience it doesn't absorb as much water as the diatomaceous earth or pumice. There are lots of other baked clay granules based on different types of clay, or just with different names. You always need to make sure they are baked hard enough to be stable in soil.

There are variations on the baked clay theme. LECA is one in the UK, maybe with different names in Europe, that has a very porous interior with a less porous outer shell formed by partially melting the granules. It is sometimes available crushed with part of the interior exposed. In whole form it absorbs very little water and is used for benching or as a hydroponic substrate.

I nearly forgot Haydite. I suppose you could call it another baked clay, but its different from most. It is an expanded shale. Shale is a sedimentary rock largely made up of clay but with other minerals layered in. The layers make it easy to expand like vermiculite, but unlike vermiculite it is hard. Chemically very similar to Turface, I believe all the expanded shales are smectites such as Montmorillonite.

Sowing is completed here, unless there's something good on the MSG list due very soon. It keeps me sane in winter :)


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 5:15 pm
User avatarJoined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:42 amPosts: 1217Location: 51Degr NL, Europe
shrubs_n_bulbs wrote:
Quote:
The difference between Diatomite and pumice seems very hard to make


The difference? ...interesting survey snipped


I meant making the difference "de visu" and for the unexperienced geologist :lol:
I've had at least 5 commercially available components for which from the observation of porosity, water uptake and weight (dry/wet) it is hard to tell what it really is .. and for the sake of nostalgy I still have various samples of "old "stuff

http://the-parodia.net/seramis/ :wink:



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 5:24 pm
User avatarJoined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 6:52 amPosts: 5257Location: UK
Westerwald sausages :) Seramis is sold in the UK but expensive.

I'd like to think I can tell most of them apart by eye but I might be fooling myself. Pumice is generally light grey and although it has visible pores it can look quite smooth. Its often crushed though, then it has less smooth bits. Calcined diatomaceous earth has a characteristic pink tinge, but that can vary depending on what clay is also mixed in. The pores are not visible, but you know they're there from the hiss and the water disappearing. Calcined clays tend to have a rougher appearance with visible pores. They can be quite red but always "clay" coloured rather than the pink-beige of diatomaceous earth. If clay granules are grey then they're probably not calcined. I've seen some that claimed to be fired but they could be crushed into mud.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 8:38 am
User avatarJoined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:42 amPosts: 1217Location: 51Degr NL, Europe
shrubs_n_bulbs wrote:
Westerwald sausages :) Seramis is sold in the UK but expensive.

I'd like to think I can tell most of them apart by eye but I might be fooling myself. Pumice is generally light grey and although it has visible pores it can look quite smooth. Its often crushed though, then it has less smooth bits. Calcined diatomaceous earth has a characteristic pink tinge, but that can vary depending on what clay is also mixed in. The pores are not visible, but you know they're there from the hiss and the water disappearing. Calcined clays tend to have a rougher appearance with visible pores. They can be quite red but always "clay" coloured rather than the pink-beige of diatomaceous earth. If clay granules are grey then they're probably not calcined. I've seen some that claimed to be fired but they could be crushed into mud.


Yep .. Westerwald ... aka "Römertopf" (*) substrate :wink:

On second thoughts .. I start to wonder if I've actually ever seen real Diatomite the way you describe it (pinkish material)? .. I know of that Moler material as it came up in a discussion about using kitty liter absorbants. I am not too sure if the average grower is able to make a "de visu" distinction between different sorts of pumice, coarse perlite (yep this one too) and diatomite and I'm hoping that the manufacturers correctly label the bags ... but in the end it boils down to "we buy what is readilly & locally available" and in our part of the world we are rather spoiled in choices for these sorts of additives :wink:

(*) Römertopf .... http://www.roemertopf.de/english/ :D



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 2:11 pm
User avatarJoined: Thu May 14, 2009 3:54 pmPosts: 204Location: Ellrich, Thuringia, Germany
Sorry I don't have many time today. Tomorrow I'll try to answer your questions.
But it is something happend.

After 24 hours the first seedlings pops. The fastest germination that I've ever seen.
Frailea chrysacantha

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Enjoy your day
Ralf



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Ralf

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 6:05 pm
User avatarJoined: Thu May 04, 2006 11:56 amPosts: 518Location: Sweden - Landvetter
Congrats! :) Here is one more question for you, what is the temp in the box?



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 6:47 pm
User avatarJoined: Wed Jun 17, 2009 6:15 amPosts: 118Location: San Diego, CA
Aren't Fraileas wonderful!

Many of the Fraileas I planted started to swell and sprout after 24 hours also. I just love these tiny little cacti and can't figure out just why no one else in the united states likes them. I have only seen one for sale once, and I bought it. Maybe if they were huge and gaudy with bright colors people here would like them more.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 12:25 pm
User avatarJoined: Thu May 14, 2009 3:54 pmPosts: 204Location: Ellrich, Thuringia, Germany
Manu wrote:
hej Ralf,

nice setup! What genera did you sow? :D


Not so many, it's just a small sowing.

Astrophytum myriostigma
Astrophytum myriostigma 4 Rippig
Carnegiea gigantea
Copiapoa humilis
Escobaria vivipara var. bisbeeana
Epithelantha micromeris
Ferocactus latispinus
Ferocactus wislizeni
Gymnocalycium calochlorum
Lophophora williamsii
Mammillaria backebergiana var. ernestii
Mammillaria berkiana
Mammillaria grahamii
Mammillaria grahamii SB507
Mammillaria insularis
Mammillaria pilcayensis
Mammillaria schiedeana
Mammillaria slevinii
Neochilenia occulta
Turbinicarpus krainzianus
Turbinicarpus lophophoroides
Turbinicarpus polaskii
Turbinicarpus roseiflorus
Turbinicarpus schwarzii
Frailea chrysacantha
Turbinicarpus swobodae

emyemy wrote:
Are the entire pots filled with this product?


No, Emy. It's only 1 or 2 millimeter at the surface. Under the kieselguhr is a special sowing soil with some of humus, pumice, vermiculite and kieselguhr.

regulus wrote:
BTW Ralf .. you are an early bird for sowing :D .. althogh it is itching here, I try to wait a bit longer ...


Only the early bird catches the fattest worm. :lol:
No I'm not an early bird, I'm very late this year. Normally I am starting in January to sow.


BTW the discussion about the Kieselguhr
Here is the product info
Kieselguhr
Sorry it's only in German.


Adios Amigos
Ralf



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Have a nice day!
Ralf

Enjoy my collection Partly in english, now!
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 12:30 pm
User avatarJoined: Thu May 14, 2009 3:54 pmPosts: 204Location: Ellrich, Thuringia, Germany
Magnus wrote:
Congrats! :) Here is one more question for you, what is the temp in the box?


Sorry Magnus, I've forgot you. :oops:
Inside is 19-30 degrees (66-86 F) and
with addition of light from 8 am to 10 pm.

Ralf



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Have a nice day!
Ralf

Enjoy my collection Partly in english, now!
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 1:10 pm
User avatarJoined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:42 amPosts: 1217Location: 51Degr NL, Europe
Thank you for the Kieselguhr info .. I may need a journey to visit some German friends so it seems :)



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 5:22 am
User avatarJoined: Thu May 14, 2009 3:54 pmPosts: 204Location: Ellrich, Thuringia, Germany
regulus wrote:
Thank you for the Kieselguhr info .. I may need a journey to visit some German friends so it seems :)


You're welcome!

After 5 days my sowing looks like so.

Image

Image

Have a nice day
Ralf



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Ralf

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